You, my readers, are not stupid. You’re well-read, well-educated people who know things. So I’m going to try not to insult anyone’s intelligence here. But before I get started, I do have to make a statement for that rare person who stumbles onto this blog and maybe isn’t quite as hip as the rest of you. So please, bear with me…I dunno. Pretend it’s a commercial or something.
Karmais a Hindu concept. It only belongs within the philosophies and theologies of that religion. When you remove it from Hinduism, it really doesn’t work. Because there’s so much more to the evolution of the soul than what we think of as “Karma.” It’s displaced, disjointed, and dismembered when we take it out of context. Yes, I do venerate a couple of Hindu gods…but I am not a Hindu. If you’d like to know more about this, feel free to surf around the web and Wikipedia. Go ahead. You can come back when you’re done. While you’re at it, be sure to look up Dharma. Trust me, you’ll feel better if you do.
Done? Great. Moving along…
The second point I’d like to make (again, regular readers feel free to skip this part. Unless you want to leave rousing comments of “hear, hear” and “huzzah” in the comments. Which is fine. I like that part, actually.) Is that KARMA IS NOT A GOD. It is a concept. It will not handle things itself. That would be theoretically impossible, and incredibly silly. Ireally hate it when people say “Karma will take care of (whatever, whoever).” Except maybe in silly jokes because, well, silly jokes are silly.
Being that Karma isn’t an entity itself, just how is it supposed to “take care of it?” <–Color me confused.
It’s usually phrased that if you do something incorrect, wrong, or downright mean in this life, you will automatically be punished for it in the next. However, there are always mitigating situations. After all, there are people who kill in self-defense. Will they be punished? I would think that any “Karmic” concept would factor in things like intent, self-defense, desperation, necessity, survival, etc. Also, what is evil to one person is often good to another, and vice-versa. The definitions of what is harmful changes from culture to culture, from society to society. How is that supposed to be judged? And by whom? (Some of you are polytheists with Divinities handling this aspect…these comments, naturally, do not apply to your belief system…;-) )
Wouldn’t any concept ”Karma” have to take into account already conducted past-lives? After all, the situations we find ourselves in are supposed to be results of the life prior. Why then should we pay in the next life when we can simply blame the last one?
Yeah, doesn’t work for me. Sorry.
Let’s say there’s a person messing with me; mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, or magically, it doesn’t matter. It’s quite possible this person was as nasty in the last life as they are in this one. The “lesson” there? I have to take control. I have to stop this. If I do not, they will continue to be a problem in the next one. No, you can’t leave it to the mysterious and all-powerful “Karma” to take care of it. Take responsibility, pull on the big girl/boy pants, and take care of yourself and/or loved ones. I am the arm/leg/hand/foot of Karma. No one’s going to handle this if I don’t. If this person is still annoying me in the next life, it’s all my own fault, not “Karma’s.” Karma doesn’t live here.
Once it’s handled, I can go on to the next life with a clean conscience. Or reasonably so, at least.
Of course, it’s possible I’m having trouble with so-and-so in this life because I was the nasty person in the last life. I don’t like to think it’s possible, but…it could have been. I usually like to play it safe before actually taking action. A little divination will usually reveal if there are any “old” issues not smoothed out from one life to the next. I am a big believer in check first, then smack.
And if it does turn out that there’s something I need to atone for, I truly believe there are ways of atoning for it so that it doesn’t haunt me into the next. It may be as simple as forgiving the offender. It may be as complicated as offerings or prayers to certain spirits or gods, or even to the soul of the person I am having problems with. It hasn’t come to this for me yet, but I believe that there may even be “salvation” in volunteer work, etc.
The point is…I clear it up now. I deal with it here. I don’t wait for the mysterious, elusive “Karma” to take care of it for me. That’s procrastinating, evading, ducking, and forcing my next life to take care of my crap. And that’s not cool.
Of course, right now this all seems clear as crystal. But then I get to thinking about the non-linear nature of time, and that the soul is naturally non-linear although our human perceptions are very linear. Therefore all past-lives exist simultaneously but not, and our souls are actually conducting all these lives simultaneously…so how exactly is this concept of punitive karma supposed to work then, when the outcomes of the next life and all the choices you are about to make are alreadyknown by your soul? Couldn’t we theoretically then be punished or rewarded for the next life in this one?
Okay. Ouch. This is what watching too much Doctor Who can do to your brain and your theological theories. I need to go empty my brain now.
Karma ended up being a big problem for me in therapy. My therapist believed that karma caused everything. Cancer? karma. Lost your job? Karma. Natural disaster wiped out your house and family? Karma. I just couldn’t buy it. The more I tried to fit into that model, the more my brain rejected it. Even now, I just don’t buy it. It doesn’t jive at all with me. Go figure.
Well, that’s the Western conscious thought of karma. It’s our inability to leave something where it belongs, I.E. in its native landscape.
Well, she is Buddhist, so I guess it sorta fits in with her world view. But not mine.
Correct me if I’m wrong (anybody), but I thought karma in a Buddhist and Hindu capacity, meant that karma was only utilized in an all-encompassing capacity? F’x, you live a shit life and come back as a dung beetle. Versus you did some good and bad, come back as human.
I’m not really sure. I know she placed people above animals (she thought that she had ‘uplifted’ her dogs souls, so that they would manage to come back as people in the future). I have a hard time believing that (see my post on equality). Not sure if that’s what you’re asking, but that’s what I gleened from her.
It has been a *long* time since I’ve researched any of this, and I might have to ask a few of my Hindu friends or my Jain step-mom-in-law for clarification…but I think you’re right. This seems to be the basis of the caste system; to the extent that (until recent times in some areas…still true in others) darker skin people are considered “lower” than lighter, and being darker skinned is attributed to some-or-other past life ills.
I know that some Jains (step-mom-in-law lives here and is more “Westernized,” they will go to the extent of covering their mouths to keep themselves from swallowing bugs/living organisms and sweeping the sidewalk in front of them to prevent themselves from accidentally stepping on a living creature. Some will also not eat root vegetables because harvesting them will cause the plant to die. From what I understand, this is because they believe in the transmigration of the soul. You can come back as anything from a mosquito to a cow to a human to a monkey…to whatever. Therefore, all life is sacred. That’s the extreme case, of course…
Historically speaking, there is some reason to believe that this caste system was put into place (shock of all shocks<–sarcasm) to preserve the power for a migrating conquering tribe over the native inhabitants.
Of course, if anyone knows any more on the subject, feel free to comment. I admit I really don't remember most of this…having decided it didn't really fit in with my personal philosophies, I promptly forgot most of it. After all, there's only so much room in my brain…;-)
I place my animals above lots of humans. They love me to death and vice versa. They’re there for me just like my best friends. I don’t like that concept, at all.
It doesn’t sit well with me either. Many times, I think animals have their shit together way better than people. They are more intune to things. They love unconditionally. They are awesome. I don’t understand why people place themselves above animals. Of course, I don’t understand the whole hierarchy thing to begin with.
Karma will get you for this! Bawahahahahahahahahahahaha! I couldn’t help it. >:)
Thanks…I needed that!
What’s really always bothered me about karma is that people assume that whatever happens to you, you deserve it because of whatever you’ve done. I always refer to the victims of 9/11. There just is nothing that thousands of people could have done to deserve that. Karma is flawed logic when applied outside of Hinduism and Buddhism. I just don’t believe in karma. “What goes around comes around” is not the same as karma. And I wish I could beat everyone that uses them synonymously.
Don’t even get me *started* on 911. At that point in time, I was involved with a New Age group…they proclaimed that all the souls of people who died in that devastation had *chosen* to be there…Seriously???
It seems that every religion has some sort of “Golden Rule.” Which is fine, and has it’s place…but no…NOT THE SAME AS KARMA. Ugh.
Heh. So would beating people who use the term Karma be their just Karma?
hahaha “I beat you because you chose for me to beat you before you were ever born.” That’s totally epic. lol
Yeah, during 9/11 I was still Wiccan. The group that I was most close with were some of those “the Gods had a reason for all those people dying.” thing. I was like, “Dude, is this Wicca? Or Christianity?!”
And a point goes to LJ! As I’ve said before, I don’t buy into the concept of “sin,” so yeah, that doesn’t really work for me either.
My therapist tried to tell me that the tsunami that occured in Japan last year (you know, the one that killed 15,000 people) was a result of karma. I looked at her and said “so 15,000 people fucked up so badly, that they needed a gigantic wave to come wipe them out? And the world managed to get all of these people into one area to be wiped out?” Apparently so. Her retort was more or less “Well remember what Japan did in WW2?”. I was pretty much done at that point.
HONESTLY?!?! So many things wrong with that. First, it was the Japanese *government* that was involved in WWII. Your average peasant didn’t have a lot of choice in the matter. Second, *they* believed they were completely righteous in that war…regardless of what *we* think. Is “Karma” from the eyes of the victor as history is? *screaming in frustration*
I left that session really frustrated, honestly. It was the beginning of the end for me.
I frequently think that western cultures have managed to substitute “Karma” for “God” in their sentence but they’re still working with the idea that there’s a big scorekeeper in the sky. They may not want to admit that they still believe that, but they often do. I think that when it’s boiled down, it’s more of a neutral cause and effect concept. Like, if I go to the grocery store and someone happens to be robbing it and they shoot me, I have been shot. I was shot because I went to the grocery store at that particular moment. I wasn’t doing right or wrong; there is no value system attached to it, it just happened. I think a lot of times, people say things like “well, it’s their karma, they’ll pay for that eventually” to comfort themselves in the face of real or perceived wrongs. Yes, people who do socially maladaptive stuff lke harming others often experience a negative reaction, even if that’s ending up dying entirely alone with a rootless, fruitless existence to show for it. That’s not karma, they just got exactly out of life what they chose to put into it. It’s not that mystical. Or so says I. Anyway, that goes back a little bit to what you were saying, which is that if someone is mistreating me or I am being victimized in some way, it is my role to manage that issue. Whether it’s my fault that it is happening is beside the point. There is no blame to be spread around or sins to atone for, it’s just a circumstance and here it is and it’s got to be dealt with. Here’s a problem, my job to fix it. If I don’t fix it, I will continue to be mistreated. Cause and effect.
Oh, you nailed that. “Karma” is the new “Providence,” which is what people used to say so they didn’t sound blasphemous or too religious.
YES. Just had to say that.
It seems to me people are attempting to write off coincidence as Karma, given the 9/11, WWII examples, etc. I appreciate this post; normally I don’t stop to think about Karma or its origins, but this did make me pause to collect my thoughts on the matter. I’m curious, what do you think about the Threefold Law? Karma in a Wiccan light, or something else?
It does seem to me to be Westernized or Wiccanized Karma…without the transmigration of the soul. Of course, that’s the current interpretation of it at least. There are some who interpret the Threefold Law differently; more in the way I look at “Karma.” To those few, it’s a personal responsibility. If someone throws something your way, you’re *supposed* to send it back times three. Of course, like I said, that’s not the popular interpretation these days.
The “Buddhist” therapist previouly mentioned needs to actually study her religion. Karma is cause and effect. Actions have effects now, and they also affect Samskaara (one of the “skandhas” that make up the manifest being). There’s not even good and bad Karma, at root, just stuff that perpetuates the illusion of the self and keeps it on the good ole amusement park ride of Samsara instead of taking the Nirvana exit.
Thank you. You have an excellent way of getting into the details without getting into the details.
One of the reasons I sidestepped the Hindu/Buddhist concept of Karma in this post altogether is because if I’d started to explain…five years later I *might* have been done with the post. I get obsessive about details…*sigh*
It never ceases to amaze me how the average pagan/alternative religion practitioner du jour can’t be bothered with the details of the concepts they’re stealing. They learn just enough…and they’re off and running.
That’s true no matter what system they’re cribbing from. In the matter of the “mysterious East,” there are actually rather good reasons why superficial explanations of difficult concepts were all that was available to most people. Without dredging up a hopeless mass of detail, this one involves the Theosophical Society, the first World Parliament of Religions, various members of the Western Esoteric Elite who enjoyed posturing a lot more than teaching, various Beats who talked before they knew anything (sparing the authentically and deeply enlightened Gary Snyder, who has had the unfair advantage of actually living a full lifespan), and our insatiable American thirst for a quick way to do anything.
Oh, so very true. And yet another thing many people on these paths are so good at ignoring: history. Not *just* world history, but their own pagan/occult/alternative religion history as well…
*sigh*
Just dropping by to shout “hear, hear!”
This is the first post I’ve ever read that I rated at five stars by the time I hit the third paragraph.
Thank you! That means a lot to me…glad to see you stop by!
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