First and foremost, let me say unequivocally that you, my readers and friends, are the best readers EVER. Seriously. I mean this. I was a bit worried, a bit hesitant when I posted last week’s question. The very first question. Why? Because we’ve all seen it. We’ve seen the forums, email groups, and even chat rooms that have gone up in explosions because of “discussions” that devolved into arguments before becoming full-blown internet fisticuffs. I didn’t think it would happen here. But you never know. The wrong word, the wrong attitude, and it could have gotten completely out of control.
Granted, I’m skirting some of the worst topics. Let’s face it, there are some hot-button topics that would have the trolls, freaks, opinionazis, and whack-jobs on blog in nanoseconds. Starting with less controversial questions we can get to know each other, built up some camaraderie and respect before we get into the meatier things. After all, if we disagree but genuinely like each other, it’s a lot harder to dig into the bag of insults and snark. I am well aware that intelligent, well-informed, well-read readers like y’all are infinitely capable of both insultsand snark. Probably on monumental levels.
If we’ve bonded, tho, we’re less likely to focus those well-honed skills on each other and more likely to circle the wagons and attack outsider trolls when they come a-strollin’ by. Or so ’tis my hope.
So again, today’s discussion isn’t going to be overly biting, edgy, or political, but I’m hoping it will still have plenty for us to bat about at each other.
When I had the store, many…many people wanted to be able to read Tarot or pendulum, or whatever. At that time, I truly believed that anyone could. I hadn’t really formed an opinion on why the cards work. You know…who was it I was actually talking to? Myself? My spirits? My gods? *shrug* At the time, it didn’t really matter. They worked.
Same thing when I began using the pendulum regularly.
I also used to counsel constantly that reading the cards for yourself is next to impossible. It just seems to me, that it’s like psychoanalyzing yourself. It’s much more useful to have that outside opinion, someone who can see with clarity the forest that’s being blocked by the trees that you will undoubtedly see in your own reading. Admittedly, this theory looks suspicious. I was “selling” readings…and how best to protect your business if you’re showing everyone else in the world how do it? Talk about teaching yourself out of a job…but that really wasn’t the motivation. I seldom read for myself. I know I will see what I’m looking for. If I do it at all, I will write out the position and the “book definition” of each card while I’m looking at it to see if I can at least bring in the author’s perspective in addition to my own. Next to worthless, I know…but still better than nothing if your back is up against the wall.
At the same time…even today…I get insecure. Especially when someone else contradicts or doesn’t confirm the reading I’ve given. I will hem and haw and in general wonder if I’m completely off my rocker.
Which reminds me of something else along these lines. Padrino always told us that no one should see more than one reader. Because if they contradict each other, what will the client do? See a third? It’s more relevant for someone in his position because it’s not just “foretelling” but communicating with a Orisha, instructing them as far as what is wrong in their lives, what Orishas require offerings, whether or not cleansings are necessary. If a person were to be read by two different people and one of them was untrustworthy (especially in these situations where moneydoes change hands and therefore the unscrupulous could certainly lie/exaggerate to increase their own income)…well, headaches would no doubt ensue.
I see his point. However, in all the years that Mousie and I worked together, and read for mutual clients, we never once had that problem. Then again, neither of us is unscrupulous…however, it does remind me of doctor shopping. You know…they don’t get the opinion they want from you, so they see another reader, and another reader, and another…until someone tells them what they “always” felt was happening. *sigh*
So yeah, we’re talking about divination today. What’s your favorite, most trusted, most reliable form of divination? Do you think anyone can do it or is it a gift only a few possess? Is it necessary to study for years or can you pick it up overnight? Should it be instinctive? Would you/have you taught others how to use it? Who do you think you’re communicating with? Did you study your divination technique? Got a favorite book on the subject? A strange form of divination maybe we haven’t heard of before? Do you divine for yourself or rely partially/totally on outside help? Do you think clients that see multiple readers are problematic?
Last but certainly not least (and potentially the most entertaining)…got any really good divination stories? From the hysterical to the profound…doesn’t matter. We’re all family around these parts.
Again…house rules apply. Play nice. Remember everything you learned in kindergarten and forget all the stupid social bull kaka you learned in middle school. This is not a popularity contest. There are no points. Snark has its place. I highly recommend http://www.regretsy.com if you’re in that sort of mood. I’ve got a low tolerance level with opinionazis too. Get it all out & come on back & have some fun…
Okay, so here we go. Talk amongst yourselves…
I’m almost entirely devoted to using a Tarot or Oracle card set for divination. This is because I have had familial assistance in discovering divination (my mom was a Tarot reader before I was) and because I had never heard of some of the more… non-traditional, shall we say, forms of divination. It wasn’t until I got more firmly entrenched in paganism that I discovered that people really could read the bones, could read entrails, could see omens in bird migrations, could read the smudges on candle glass leftover, and various other forms. These are all so interesting and neat, but I will always turn to cards for a reading, first.
I think anyone can pick up a deck of Tarot cards and learn them. Some of the others, I think, may have more to do with skills and abilities that could be genetic or just fluke. But, when it comes to reading the cards, I don’t see it as someone “must” be “gifted” to do it. I didn’t have omen-filled dreams before I started and I think I do a damn fine job when I give readings.
I love how people nowadays think that because we can get information just by tapping a few keys, then everything should be learned that way. Unfortunately, just like specializing in a specific time period when you have a history degree, so too does it take time, effort, and energy to learn divination methods. Some people can rely on instinct and I’ve been given Tarot readings based on people who don’t use books to define the cards and only rely on gut instincts… and those readings were dead fucking on. But those people have also been around the block a few times. It’s not their first rodeo. They know what they’re doing because they took the time and energy necessary to practice, practice, practice. So, while I can definitely understand the current mindset of “everything must be learned RIGHT AWAY” it doesn’t work that way.
I have never taught anyone how to read cards, but I’ve always tried to be very positive and sympathetic when people pick it up.
When I’m using the cards, I tend to think of it as my communicating with the divine aspect of myself. This is something that I’m still working on, but let me see if I can explain it. In effect, since we were created in the images of our gods and spirits, so too do we have a divine spark that they have. In similar fashion, this is how (I think) the Lwa came about. They had the divine spark, but it was greater after lots of lessons and journeying and whatnot, thereby turning them not quite into gods themselves but pretty damn close. And in it is that spark of the divine that tells me what I need to tell my readers. It is that spark that clearly communicates what needs to be communicated. Does that make ANY sense?
I have long since realized that I cannot possibly divine for myself, or if I do, I invariably have to call up the Sister for a back up reading. “I DON’T GET IT,” is a frequent phrase heard when I try to use the cards on myself.
I have never been able to get into oracle cards. I don’t know why. I’ve gotten about 3 of them, but I guess they just don’t do much for me. Which Oracles do you use? Because maybe I’m just getting the wrong ones…
I do think that more learning than just picking up and doing is generally necessary. I made a huge mistake all those years ago. I had been studying and studying and studying for years, but found myself still reliant on books when I did readings. Honestly, that was probably because of insecurity more than anything else. (So I guess there is also such a thing as too much learning and not enough doing?) When I found the “right” deck, I was unable to ditch all the books because they way they were drawn is so well done that I *know* what the meaning is. Intuition doesn’t often come into play except when I know the cards mean something other than the dictionary definition. I don’t think this happens very often but Mousie says that it comes up every time I read for her so I guess I don’t realize how often I lean on intuition!
Anyway, because that had worked for me I started preaching the “just look at the cards” method. Which was a disaster. It did show me that if we all have “the gift” it’s lying dormant in most of us because the people who can read intuitively are pretty rare. Not unheard of…just rare.
Yes, your explanation makes plenty of sense. In fact, I’ve heard this theory before from other people…so you’re not alone!
I’m really not sure anymore. I know who I’m talking to when I use the pendulum, and I’ve actually learned to *ask* who I’m talking to to make sure it’s the *right* Spirit. Because some of them are tricksy…
I’ve had a few Oracle decks and a lot of them didn’t work out. But, my first deck that didn’t end up in the trash was the Pyramid Oracle and we got along famously. Again, it’s not always the case with some cards. I work well with the Fairy Ring Oracle that the Sister uses, as well.
Let me guess…the Pyramid Oracle is Egyptian, right?
I suppose that’s the problem. I haven’t found any oracle decks that feel like I’d *want* to work with them. Some with pretty pictures, sure…but none I really want to work with.
Yep! I collect, passionately, Egyptian-related divination cards. Yes, I am aware that I am a geek.
What I like best?
Cards. Tarot and non-Tarot. Pendulum for specific things, like where I have my damned keys.
Can everybody do it?
It can be learned. Like singing, or playing an instrument. Depending on your talent you will be better or not so good at it. Like me – couldn’t sing to safe my life, but with enough effort I could reach a level that wouldn’t hurt any innocent bystanders.
Should you read for yourself?
It is possible. It depends on the topic. I agree that it is difficult, if you are emotionally overwhelmed. In such a case I sometimes do (in fact) an online spread, because there is no way I could influence the upcoming cards that way. (Had that happening before, so yes – it is possible.)
I never thought about using an online interface for cards. I know you’ve mentioned it, along with others, on the forum, but it just never occurred to me.
I am a total and utter pendulum addict. I admit it. And I can’t sing to save my life either.
But I agree with you about the learning…it can be done. Some, for some reason, always seem to be better with the instincts, however. Maybe it’s just trust or security or something…
Like Aubs, I never would have thought to use an online system. Oh, I’ve used them…just for kicks. Never thought to take them seriously. Does the one you use come with an interpretation of the cards or is it just the cards in a spread? Because the problem I have for reading for myself is not that I’m worried I’d contaminate the pull as much as I’m unable to clearly interpret the cards. (Of course, now I wonder if I should worry about that when reading for myself, too!) If they had interpretations as well, I’d say the online thing could be useful…wouldn’t be able to reinterpret the cards to apply to any certain situation, but you might be able to at least get some help in an emergency situation.
I use a German one, but on the Llewellyn page there are some online spreads available, too. And I think with interpretation.
Yeah, the German I learned in high school was none-too-good then, and has gotten rusty in the last 20+ years so I guess I’d better stick to the English one!
I’m a big proponent of geomancy (not feng shui, vastu shastra, or other geospatial mystic traditions), a kind of binary-figure divination system that started in the Sahara about 1000 c.e. and spread south into Africa to become Ifa and Sikidy, east into Arabia to become `ilm al-raml, and north into Europe to become geomancy. Really nifty system, and having a computer science/mathematics background, this kind of divination system clicks well with me. I came across it while making my first forays into ceremonial magic a few years ago, and put it to use trying to find as many books on it as I could. I’m becoming pretty handy with it, after a reasonable amount of study (with only 16 figures, they can signify many things); John Michael Greer has among the best books of technique, while Stephen Skinner goes on at length and in depth about its history and development. I’ve guided others in demos and psychic fairs before about how to use the art, since it’s fairly easy to pick up within a week or so, but I largely taught myself from books and practice. Although I ask for help from some divination-focused spirits for help, most of the time I treat divination like I do sight: it’s just another faculty I’m using to view and interpret the world.
The best way I’ve heard divination described as a skill is a metaphor between an eagle and a lark. Both birds wanted to please the gods way up high in the skies: the eagle had the strength and ability to fly, but little charm to please; the lark had the song to please, but lacked the stamina to fly so high. The two teamed up and were able, together and in tandem, to accomplish their goal. Just so do technique, memorization of symbols, and knowledge (eagle) and talent, intuition, and the ability to tune into a situation or person (lark) have their roles in divination. Once can potentially make up for the other, but both are needed in at least some amount. If someone lacks the talent, they might go with a more skill-based system (I Ching, moh, etc.), but if someone is horrible at study, they might go with a more intuition-based system (scrying, automatic writing, etc.). Most divination systems require both, though.
I like to divine for myself and others, often trading readings with my sister who does tarot. Clients that see multiple readers, if done earnestly, can get different viewpoints on the same situation (I take the stand that all divination systems say the same thing but in different ways), but if they’re just shopping around for a good answer, then they should be turned out (geomancy has a few signs that indicate whether or not this is the case).
Geomancy…a divination system I haven’t studied yet!
Well, not for divination. Thanks for the book recommendations, I’ll be looking into them. I’m particularly interested in the historical concepts you were talking about. I’m very curious…obsessed even…with the connections between these systems, etc. and how spiritual concepts flowed from one cultural group to another. You can probably understand I’m particularly interested in the connection between Ifa and other systems.
Yeah, I’m a history geek. It’s okay though, right?
I love your metaphor. I believe you make a good point and that it resonates with just about everyone here. I wouldn’t be surprised to see your metaphor floating about here and there…
You’ve got an excellent point about some systems needing more study and some needing more intuition. They would all appear to need both to an extent, but there does seem to be a method for every inclination, doesn’t there?
I was wondering about the client sharing concept myself. Mousie and I have never had a problem. Never. When Mousie has been read by myself and, say, her Madrina, there hasn’t been a problem. I’m beginning to believe more and more that this is something he was using to try to control situations…as well as his own godchildren, and probably something he picked up while in Miami. There’s a story there. I’ll get to it some day. In the meantime, it does seem as though this hasn’t been a problem for anyone else.
I like it for its binary and recursive method of generating detailed answers in a situation. It’s also useful as a form of alchemy by using different combinations of the four elements in a way not unlike the ba gua of Chinese systems with yin and yang in the hexagrams. If you’re interested in history, definitely check out Stephen Skinner’s “Terrestrial Astrology” (rare, out of print) or his newer “Geomancy in Theory and Practice” (which I haven’t yet gotten my paws on).
I don’t often do shared readings with someone, actually. If I get a really conflicted or confusing reading, I’ll often wait for another time to do the divination or get someone else to clear things up for me, either by using the same chart I drew or by their own reading (geomancy or otherwise). Like I said, all languages say the same thing in different ways, and depending on your perspective you might be looking at just a different facet of the same gemstone.
Oh, and one last thought…I *love* that geomancy has signs to indicate Psychic Abuse. Because more divination systems need that. It’s gotten to the point that I will *never* do any work/readings regarding love. Because people with “love” issues aren’t balanced at all. Domestic issues…maybe a reading. But “love”? Nope. There are much greater odds that someone that desperate for Mr./Ms right is psychic shopping and/or witch shopping. Plus, they really do get on my last nerve.
Actually, it’s a technique borrowed from horary astrology (the “older sister” of geomancy in European practice, and from which geomancy has adopted a lot of techniques and ideas). The 11th house is the house of unasked or hidden questions; if there’s something suspicious going on in both the 1st and 11th houses that’s indicating deception or an unheeding nature, then the geomancer might take note of that and cancel the reading entirely or change his strategy accordingly.
Agreed wholeheartedly on the love advice, though. Some people ask too often “how will X happen?” without considering whether X will happen at all first.
If nothing else, I think I need to adapt some of my methods to include this “hidden” aspect. Sounds *extremely* useful.
You might like Poke Runyon’s method, too. Give a listen to http://www.blogtalkradio.com/the-hermetic-hour/2012/04/06/hermetic-geomancy .
Thanks for the tip. When I have a good internet day or I’m somewhere with free WiFi, I’ll definitely look into this one!
I don’t do divination. Pretty much that simple. I have a couple systems- card, i-ching, runes. But none of them really do much for me. It’s not that I can’t read- I can read well for others, but I’ve never gotten much fulfillment from reading, especially for myself. For whatever reason, I use my own gut for doing things. I get warnings when shit is about to hit the fan (I call it the ‘alarm clock’ going off in my head). I pick up on subtle cues that let me know when I need to do something. So I use that, if that counts. Set also doesn’t seem to care for me reading too much. I guess he feels that I should trust my instincts enough not to need to consult cards or other things. Usually, I only consult cards when it’s New Years, and if I’m completely under water. The last time I heavily looked at cards, I was unemployed for 4 months. The cards kept telling me I’d be fine- and like a dunce, I always took that as “it’ll be okay tomorrow!”. Well, no, it took nearly half a year, but ultimately, I was okay. A little worse for wear, but okay none the less. Did I need the cards to tell me that? No. The cards did nothing but give me false hope and were a crutch.
Cuz I was a bit stupid.
Ever since then, I’ve really resisted the urge to pull out divination tools unless I really really REALLY feel I need them (read: Almost never). That’s not to say that they can’t have a place in other people’s practices and lives, they just don’t really factor into my own.
Well, and define divination, I suppose.
I *never* need that “tell me my fortune” kind of reading myself
And I pretty much know what’s going on on a daily basis.
And I agree with you about the gut instinct or “Spidey Sense” as I often jokingly refer to it. I *know* when something is wrong.
When I need divination myself, it is when something is “wrong.” Because I usually need to know what that is. I know “something” is wrong but if I don’ t know *what* that is, it is awfully hard to fix it. But it’s generally not about daily life, it’s about metaphysical/spiritual/witchcraft problems. Like if I’m being crossed or if there’s a Spirit or an Orisha aching for attention, that sort of thing.
I think you’re right…I think the cards, etc., can become a crutch if used incorrectly.
That is true. Divination is sorta what you make it. There was a point in time where I divined how the day would be based off of how my breakfast cooking went. Seriously.
I guess I’m lucky in that- once I started to work heavily with Set, I have had next to no problems with gremlins and other meta based problems. I just don’t have to worry about that stuff much anymore. For better or worse. If a deity needs me, I tell them to scream louder until I can hear them properly. However, on the by and large, I don’t get much contact from gods. I get requests, and they usually appear as images, thoughts and ideas that nag and nag and nag. No real divination needed for that.
I suppose I’m just lucky. Or sheltered. Or maybe boring.
I think anyone can learn some system, but like others have said, both instinct and study alone can only do so much. Also, some people may work much better with some forms over others. Using myself as an example, I picked up tarot first, being given a deck when I was like 13. Unfortunately, it was a Marseilles deck, which for those who don’t know isn’t fully illustrated for the pip (numbered 1-10) cards. Tarot, though the one I’ve studied the longest, requires a lot of memorization for that kind of deck, and I’ve got a terrible memory.
So yes, I’ve studied tarot, and also I’m starting to study runes, which I am finding much easier to pick up. Personally, I need study. Yes, I often have good instincts, but I do better with study, as it’s a way for me to find deeper meanings.
What I’m communicating with changes depending on what I’m using and how. With tarot it actually changes. Sometimes I’m communicating with a deeper/divine aspect of myself, sometimes with spirits or deities that I’m using the cards to communicate with because I’m bad at ‘listening’ and so for me it’s a useful communication tool. With runes, it is explicitly the spirits of the runes themselves.
Unlike many of the above, I divine for myself on a regular basis. I find it a useful way to practice, as well as sometimes help me look at situations in my life in a different way. But mostly, I use divination methods as a tool to help me communicate with deities and spirits, because for me it has thus far been the most effective way. However, for bigger/important divination, I always turn to outside help because those I turn to are much more skilled at it than I am.
(Also *waves to people* hi, I decided to stop lurking and comment.)
Welcome! Glad you came out of the shadows for a moment!
I began with playing cards…talk about needing memorization! Of course, there is a system to it and if you can remember that, you’re half-way to memorizing them…and yet, I can tell you honestly I’ve forgotten it all. Of course, it has been 30 years or so.
I had no luck at all with Tarot without the book until I found the “Holy Grail,” otherwise known as the right deck. Once I found that, it was easy to remember which card was which. The drawings clearly depicted the meanings I had attempted to memorize over and over again…and I felt myself reaching for the book less and less, and finally not at all.
I’ve just started the runes…and I find it very interesting that you see them as more intuitive. Again, I’m getting carried away with the studying. I find myself getting lost in all these wonderful discussions about what this one means and what that one means in a cultural/historical construct…and not actually *working* them or *listening* to them. Maybe I need to give that a try.
I tend to flux who I’m speaking with when I pull out the pendulum, but honestly I asked about Tarot because I usually just don’t even think about it. Which is weird when I am so conscious of who I’m speaking with when I use the pendulum…
I may have missed it in the thread because I’m jumping around like a loon through the comments, but what is your “Holy Grail” deck?
It’s not Arthur-related at all (although I did go thru that phase at one point, lol), but I call it my “Holy Grail” deck because it certainly was a quest to find one that I could work with. The first deck I was able to read w/out help was…the Robin Wood deck. I almost hesitate to say that since many people would consider it “fluffy”
But truly the expressions on the faces make the deck *so* much easier for me.
Of course, after I got used to it, I found I was able to pick up just about any deck and get a decent read. I had to retire the RW deck. After more than 20 years, that was only fair. I now use an absolutely gorgeous deck with late medieval/Renaissance artwork. I believe it’s called the Golden Tarot…but I might be getting it confused with a different set. *shrug* Their case is downstairs in the spooky room. I’ll try to remember to look next time I’m down there.
I am a fan of tarot and oracle decks as wells as runes. I believe that runes are by far the most useful for me. I use them daily, usually just a one card reading at the beginning of the day, but at times a more extensive assessment of the situation is called for.
Runes, though they are a divination tool, are also a complete magickal system. Although this system can be learned by anyone, it takes dedication and work to delve beneath the surface.
If I were to recommend a book on the subject, Northern Mysteries and Magick is my favorite. I refer to it often,
Which author is that? I think I have that one…it sounds familiar, but all my Norse reference books are now in the basement!
Oh! Sorry I forgot that very important bit of information. Her name is Freya Aswynn. She is AMAZING!!
Man! I had that book in my hand in the bookstore yesterday and didn’t know if I should get it or not….may have to make a trip back.
Oh, definitely! It is a must have for anyone working with the runes…..
I like tarot the best, but I think thats just cause its what I have the most exerpeince with. I think with some learning and all that people could read the cards. I mean each one has a meaning so they could literally learn them inside out and use that. To do it intuitively though I think you need to be open or work on your psychic muscles.
I read for myself on occasion, but it is cloudy. I tend to write out my thoughts and then turn to online sources to see if it backs up what I thought.
I’ve read books, my grans and I used to play with them when I was little and use the book to read from (we also played with a deck of cards for readings) and when I was older I had a friend give me some pointers. I’ve taught people and I say the book is good to have to help you figure out tough parts or for yourself, but its better if you can learn to trust your instincts.
Dunno who we communicate with when doing it.
But I do believe we are all able to do “psychic” stuff, its just a muscle most ppl don’t use so you have to work at it.
I used to do some pendulum stuff and I ching for a bit growing up. And the regular playing cards. but mostly tarot.
Writing it all out does seem to help. If I absolutely *have* to read for myself (very extremely rare, but it has happened before), I will write it all out…both the definition and my impressions. then I’ll walk away and look at it again later to see if I have perspective on it.
I’ve not done much with the I Ching yet. I am curious about it though…so maybe someday…*evil laugh* Yeah, I really need *more* divination systems to learn. *sigh*
I’ve owned several tarot decks over the years and have tried and tried to read them, but just couldn’t get the swing of it. Forget reading tarot for myself – I read too much into the cards that I want to see as opposed to what is actually there.
The method I use is a set of Oracle Amulets I picked up 20 years ago called “Amulets of the Goddess” which were designed by an artist by the name of Nancy Blair. The amulets don’t let me be biased. You can see some of the readings I have done using the amulets over at my Pagan Witch blog. Lately, I have been combining the amulets with shamanic journey work, and that has been very successful. The amulets are quite happy with this arrangement.
When I use the amulets, I set them in front of me like a Council of Elders, each with Her wisdom and guidance. I’ve never yet had two give conflicting information. I couldn’t tell you if it is my own subconscious, the spirits residing in the amulets, guides, gods, angels, or something else which is communicating with me. I also don’t think it matters.
I think anyone can learn the mechanical skills of doing a reading, whether it be with tarot or amulets, by memorising what is in the accompanying book. Not everyone is able to learn to trust their intuition enough to set aside the book when they start seeing meanings that aren’t found within the book.
No, this isn’t something that can be done overnight. Like I mention up above, I have been using the amulets for 20 years and I still pick up meanings and nuances and techniques which I had never considered before. It’s like polyphanes describes earlier “Just so do technique, memorization of symbols, and knowledge (eagle) and talent, intuition, and the ability to tune into a situation or person (lark) have their roles in divination. Once can potentially make up for the other, but both are needed in at least some amount.”
I think anyone can learn to do divination work, in the same way that anyone can learn to play a piano. Not everyone is going to be a virtuoso though, some will never move beyond playing Chopsticks.
I’ve shown the Amulets to others, described how I use them and how I think they work. Some people have opted to buy their own set. I don’t think I could teach someone the intuitive side of reading the amulets though. Like learning from a book, at some point the student will see a meaning that is different from what I taught, and that is the point from which they need to stop relying on my judgements when making their own readings.
I do readings for myself, and for others. They’re very good at telling you what you need to hear, though not necessarily what you thought you wanted to hear.
And very good at telling you to bugger off and do the work if they think you’ve been consulting them too often.
I have seen the readings you do on your page. Those amulets are very interesting. I never really work well with more modern divination systems. I don’t know why. Logically, I know they are probably every bit as good as Tarot, I Ching, pendulum, or any of the other “archaic” (dubious term with Tarot, I know) forms of divination. I just have trouble getting into them. I think that’s why I have yet to find “Oracle” cards I can work with. At one time, I had instructions on making a set of “amulets” (not these, but a similar concept) for divination. I sat down, made them out of Fimo clay and guess what? Yep, never use them. *shrug*
I have often had the urge to create my own “Oracle cards” but have yet to do it…
I think we spent like 10 posts on this on my blog but, er, the comments got ‘lost’ because I’m hardly ever still and moving (and, usually, deleting) posts. Anywho, I presently do not have a main method for divination. Over the years I’ve used to tarot mainly because it’s probably the most popular divinatory medium out there but I can’t say that I’ve always relied on it or even like it (not that I hate it) or anything. The deck I use to read for myself is my latest one, ‘The Wildwood Tarot’ which is the deck that’s resonated with me the most 8 decks later. I also use pendulums or rather was until they went on strike about two months ago and haven’t returned to work since; I’ve no clue what’s up with them but I figured I’d just let them be.
Also am a geomancer (novice, I suppose) of the kind indicated by Phanes above. Currently I don’t use the method of invoking one of seven Spirits (big ‘S’ to indicate that they’re drawn from the Qameas along with the Intelligences) and use what Greer calls the ‘contemplative method’, i.e. relax, breathe, focus, then state your question once, clearly. I think it’s a traditional method (involving the Spirits) to a certain extent but because I have a minimalist policy regarding spirits beings I haven’t incorporated them into the work because more than a handful is too many (I think, at some point, I have to stop trying to be so tidy but w/e). Anyway, geomancy is cool and seems to be a good fit for me. Also, I use coins for casting whereas before I used beans; it was said that prostitutes in the Renaissance would take a handful of beans and count them to generate one geomantic figure. I had beans readily at hand but it’s a bit tedious when you have to generate more than one figure! I was going to add some pages to my blog to show how to cast and interpret your basic geomantic chart and follow this with sizeable chunks of info gleaned from creative meditation…not sure though.
Coins. I never put stock in the ‘simpler’ divination systems because I was, covertly, fooling myself into think that tarot, geomancy, etc. intrinsically made more sense than, say, pendulums, casting dice or coins and so on. Nope. Anyway, I use coins (three of em) to communicate with Hermes so here I actually know who is (in theory at least) answering my questions and so far the results I’ve obtained have been quite interesting. While on the topic of the source of the info we gleaned in divinations I think I should note that in geomancy, too, there is an informing spirit being whether we use the Spirits or not. Personally, I cite the source of the information as the ‘Soul of the World’ or Gaia since I’m prone to identifying with Greek things and here I think it’s appropriate since in Greek mythology Gaia was a prophet(ess), in fact, she was the first. As for tarot and pendulums, I don’t have a fixed view on what gives us the answers but I think that our ‘subconscious’ can play a part in it. I think I have an artsy view of how it works but its not clear enough yet for me to say anything about it.
Anywho, I’m liking this new series. Blessings.
P.S. I was also interested in divining with playing cards but then the idea didn’t suit and then I thought maybe I could play do something like Blackjack. Still working on that one.
Only ten? O.o
Funny that you say that. One of my serious doubts about the pendulum revolved around it being far too simple. As though if it didn’t take years of study it simply wouldn’t work. Another theory that once tested was thrown in the dumpster with many, many others…!
I’ve gotten to the point now with the pendulum that I sit down and specifically ask for whoever I want to speak to. It seems…safer that way. I get clearer answers. There’s one or two Spirits around me who are mischievous or…well, control freaks who like to mess with me. If I don’t ask, it ends up being one of them, and I wind up more confused than I was before. So I know now who I’m speaking with.
With the Tarot, it’s a little less clear to me. Although I tend toward the subconscious idea, I sometimes wonder if someone isn’t speaking to it…and that’s where I’m getting this stuff. Theory in process. Might end up in the useless theory dumpster later. Time will tell.
Glad you’re enjoying the new series. I am too! With such amazingly great readers I guess I can’t go wrong. I was worried about trolls and flames and such, but so far so good. I might start getting adventurous here soon and post something controversial, see how we handle it!
Divination, something I’m not terrifically talented at. I think that’s why I no longer do it. I used to read tarot on one of those 1-900 lines in the 90′s. For those keeping track, that makes me old! lol
Divination is one of those things that I haven’t really introduced in my household since I quite reading. My hubby, as most know, is a recent Christian refugee. He was rather devout when we first got together, but listening to me yammer on and then starting to study on his own has made him not only question his faith, but drop it altogether. He was still dead set against divination because of the demonic implications that Christianity gives it.
I recently won a deck of tarot cards, the Thoth deck, one of the only ones I’ve never touched in my life. I thought hubs was gonna shoot through the roof, he didn’t, he was pretty chill with it. But, since it’s really the only divination method I have any experience with, it would be my chosen one. I am going to be starting runes here very soon, though.
I’ve started studying the runes myself. I have no idea *why.* I’m not remotely drawn to the Nordic culture/religions altho hubby is. *shrug* The runes, tho…yeah, I dig those. We’ll have to exchange notes at some point!
Am I late to the party again? You’ve hit on one of my favorite subjects, so I just have to say *something*!
My go-to method for divination is Tarot, hands down. I’ve been reading since I was a little kid, thanks to my Mom and Grandmother getting me a deck when I wanted one. At first, I was *convinced* there was a right way to read the cards: strict memorization of traditional card meanings combined with the art of combining card meanings, which you have to pick up through practice. When I first meat people who read cards intuitively, I was *horrified*. (Of course, the first couple of people I met who read cards intuitively were fruitcakes, so that may have had something to do with it.) It took many more years of meeting other readers and observing their techniques before I would admit that some intutive readers were doing a better job than I was. I now use a blended approach rooted in traditional meanings, but which incorporates intuitive practices.
I have taught others Tarot, from short seminars on the basics to embarking in a year-long study with a very small group. I am currently helping a friend learn. I love the process of teaching Tarot and I always seem to learn stuff along the way.
As for other methods of divination, my Mom reads Tea Leaves, and I’ve been dabbling with that since I moved back to the States. Tea Leaf reading seems to be a more spontaneous method of divination…it just kind of naturally happens in the course of your day. So I tend to get immediate and urget messages that way from time to time. Then I turn to Tarot to fill in the details.
Thanks for the great discussion topic!
Only *fashionably* late, dahlin’!
Seriously, there is no late…and I don’t mind if these discussions eventually go on and on for weeks, months even. I truly believe conversations should always die natural deaths, not be killed prematurely!
Very jealous. You and a couple people here had the privilege of learning from family members. Very jealous!
I have to agree with you. My first theory was they had to be studied. For me, I started to break out of it because the more I read, the more I realized there was disagreement about which cards meant what…more controversy with some than others, of course! And, like you, the first intuitives I came in contact with were, indeed, fruitcakes. Also, I noticed a severe hit/miss ratio with them. When they nailed something, they *nailed* it. Freakishly so. But otherwise (which was 90-95% of the time), they were so far off as to seem ridiculous. It’s possible that they just had not honed their skills properly, but the ratio combined with the attitude (intuitives do seem to cop attitude a little more often to me…but maybe it’s just the ones I’ve run into in RL? I hope.) made me think that pure intutives were *not* the best way.
Of course, then I met Mousie who is freakishly amazing with her “intuition.” Of course, she doesn’t really use intuition per se…there are people/spirits muttering at her. *They* do seem to know things…so now I tend to believe you need both…or should I say all three? Tradition/Intuition/Spirits seems to be a rocking combination…although any one or combination of two will work.
I’m late getting to this, both as in days since it was posted and in hours in the day, so I will not attempt to write the freaking book that comes to mind right now. Leaving this here will remind me to try to get back to it…
I’m just getting back to divination, as I was being treated for headaches and I’ve found I can’t read tarot when I have a headache. I don’t read them very well, but do have a talent for reading clouds. Unfortunately when it’s dark/dreich/blue skies that is not an option, so I’m going to try ogham when my branches are dry and I can make my own set.
I don’t read tarot after watching telly as the program colours my reading, which makes for an interesting reading!
I do read for myself, but have had to school myself to accept the first reading that comes out otherwise I’ll just do readings until I get the one I want. You might as well give up reading if that is what happens…
I would think headaches would certainly make tarot reading more difficult, not less.
Cloud reading? Never thought of that, and haven’t heard of anyone in recent times doing anything similar. Fascinating!
I never thought about television affecting the readings either. Of course, we haven’t had TV reception in 4 years now so it probably wouldn’t have occurred to me. At least you’re perceptive enough to catch that effect on your readings. It makes me wonder how many people this happens to and if they’ve noticed it…and if not, how many absolutely insane readings have been the result.
I’ve seen people cast over-and-over-and-over searching for that ONE answer they were looking for. When I read for other people, i will usually cut this short. Unless the cards just weren’t referring to the question at hand…in which case I’ll try to get them to refocus and refocus myself before throwing. If it happens again, nope, you’re cut off. Because the cards are telling you what you need to know at that point, not what you want to know…and they’re not going to.
When Mousie reads for me, it’s usually the bones…with which you get what you get (and she’s uncannily accurate!). Sometimes she’ll pull the cards, or even use mine…but even then it’s less about “the cards” talking and more about what “her Spirits” want to tell me.
I did say that I can’t read tarot if I have a headache. Cloud reading is just seeing shapes in the sky while thinking about something. I usually turn myself around three times while thinking of the question and then open my eyes.
Sorry. Didn’t mean to sound argumentative…meant to sound like I was agreeing! I can certainly see how that would affect your ability to read them. Especially the larger more difficult to contend with headaches like migraines; although even the naggling ones and the sinus-related ones I’ve found to be distracting as well.
May have to try that cloud reading bit. I’ve never had any luck with the symbolic forms of divination…ones that rely on pictures like scrying, flame-reading, tea-leaves and such so I don’t know if I’d be any good with clouds…but it does sound like fun.
No worries. Sometimes I think my title should be “argumentative w*tch”…
I’ve never had any luck with flame-reading, but I’ve always looked for shapes in the clouds, so that’s probably where it comes from.
My experience suggests that divination requires a certain talent, akin to clairvoyance but less dramatic. Some people attune to an oracle so naturally that they think nothing of it. Others (I, for one) have found ways to activate this talent at some level, having started with none of it, so we may have better ideas on improving the practice.
I picked up the I Ching, a pendulum, and the idea of bibliomancy in 1984 or so. I was also starting meditation practice. I could make no sense whatever of the oracles; I was pretty close to giving them up as random BS. I continued meditating, and became regular and easy in my practice. After two months or so, I cast the I Ching again, and it made perfect sense; the pendulum gave better answers as well. I’ve gotten intelligible results out of Tarot and my wife’s method of sortilege.
Right now, my favorite oracle is spirit vision. I sit or lie down, relax totally, and light up my inner sight using keywords I have programmed via hipgnosis. I ask the question and then blank out until something comes in, or I wait long enough to know I’m being waved off.
Some people attune naturally to “hot” oracles like Tarot, and others to “cool” ones like the pendulum. The combination of reader and oracle determines the success.
By contrast, my wife, who is a natural and does it professionally, says that if you have the talent, you can use a bowl of Cheerios, and if you don’t, it doesn’t matter what you use.
*chuckle* Cheerios for divination. Well, I’ve heard worse…!
Interesting that you bring up a natural difference between “types* of divination tools. I would have to agree with you, some types of divination are more instinctive and more abstract. They would demand a higher degree of natural ability, or perhaps more dedication and training of a little skill to grow it into a bigger one. Whereas the others do seem more inclined towards people who have either little natural skill or perhaps are blocking their natural gifts due to a lack of confidence or perhaps an inability to believe in it. Through academic research as well as experience, they can hone their craft as well. I don’t know if I would have used the words “hot” and “cool” when describing the different divination techniques. Would you mind delving into that theory a wee bit?
Love the word “hipgnosis.” Must add to vocabulary!
I borrowed the hot and cool terms from McLuhan’s categories of media. Tarot bombards you with images and associations, so you get to pick what’s important out of a rush of possibilities. Scrying, sortilege, and so on, are more cool: you fill in more of your own imagery, like reading a book vs watchiing TV.
I can’t take credit for hip-gnosis, or for discovering its usefulness for magic (that would be Poke Runyon, Roy Bowers, and some others in the 1970s). I did write up some of my uses for it at http://ulbh.livejournal.com .