Okay, so we’re a pretty diverse group of people reading/writing/commenting on this blog. Some of us work with deities, some of us don’t. Some of us are Wiccan, some of us aren’t. Some of us work with spells, some of us don’t.
In the interest of appealing to as many of us as possible, it’s about time we touch on the subject of magic, doncha think?
Mousie & I were talking the other day (if you haven’t noticed, an awful lot of these posts will have this sentence in them somewhere. Most of my ideas either come from or are molded by conversations I have with Mousie!). She’d been to a fancy-schmancy “occult” store (as opposed to metaphysical or botanica…they each have their own “flavor” of merchandise). There were items the store was selling; they called themamulets (I think we’re going to save the amulet/charm/talisman/gris-gris/mojo bag/medicine bag debate for another time 
. We’ll probably get to it, though). These amulets were made by one of the workers at the store. She was informed that they would last a year and given a list of do/dont’s that went with the item in question.
Huh.
So the first question…
Does spellwork have an expiration date? If you cast a spell today for…whatever, do you have to reinforce that spell in another year/month/week/whatever? Or once it’s done, it’s done? Does the expiration date only apply for one form of work and not another…for instance, many of us reinforce any wards on personal space/vehicles regularly, often yearly. Is that necessary, or does it just make you feel better? Are the rules different with items that are charged…say amulets and jewelry and such?
The second question is…if one person made it (or in some cases it’s made by slave labor in Taiwan. You never know) and energy has been properly exchanged (in the case of purchasing something, the money has exchanged hands), does that mean the original rules still apply? After all, it’s yours now, right? If you’ve been instructed to never let another person see it, but it’s yours and you want to hang it off your rearview mirror, is there a problem with that? And if, in the case of an item like the above-mentioned amulet, you take it home and consecrate/bless/charge/bespooken it according to your own Traditions and recipes, do the prior laws still apply at all? And would that invalidate any prior-existent expiration date?
And the third question. You cast a spell…say for money. And it doesn’t work. Or it doesn’t seem to. Do you have a set time-frame that you wait before attempting again? Or do you assume that’s it, it’s some gods will, it’s just not going to happen and give up? Or…do you wait patiently, knowing that what seeds you’ve planted will eventually grow, but might take longer than you’d anticipated? Is there a certain element you work into your spell work to ensure that things happen when you need to, not when whatever lines up…? Or do you throw your hands in the air, bury your head in a pillow, cry yourself to sleep and give up entirely? Has that happened (you’ve given up) and just when you’d given up all hope, has the spell work unexpectedly produced results?
I’ll probably think of more as soon as this is posted, but it’s plenty for us all to chew on at the moment!
Okay, you guys are incredibly groovy and you know the rules. No snark, no sneak attacks, no opinionazis, no below-the belt insults, no above-the belt insults. Just lots of wonderful discuss among many great minds. Question, respond, question…you know how this works by now! Play nice!
…okay, talk amongst yourselves…
Does spellwork have an expiration date?
I think it depends on the spell in question. In the Shinto practice, pretty much everything has a shelf life. Every ofuda, omamori, gofu, etc. gets burned at the end of the year, and a new one is sent out to all of the members. This is to renew the energy. Shinto is all about returning to our original brightness. It’s all about renewal. And this is reflected in all of the charms and trinkets that you can pick up from the Shrine. However, just because this is the practice in Shinto doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s the only way it can be done. I don’t necessarily think that my ofuda just stops working at the end of the year, and I imagine one could purify it again, and all would be well. However, I can’t really say one way or the other for certain
In my own life, I do renew spells evere now and then- when they are of a cleansing nature, or for protection. That way, I know that everything is tip top and ready to go. Not sure if this is out of habit, concern, or if stuff does need to actually be renewed every now and then *shrug* I fly by the seat of my pants sometimes. And outside of Shinto, that’s how I go it with everything- when my gut says it’s time to renew something (or a god tells me to) I do it.
“If one person made it (or in some cases it’s made by slave labor in Taiwan. You never know) and energy has been properly exchanged (in the case of purchasing something, the money has exchanged hands), does that mean the original rules still apply? After all, it’s yours now, right? If you’ve been instructed to never let another person see it, but it’s yours and you want to hang it off your rearview mirror, is there a problem with that? And if, in the case of an item like the above-mentioned amulet, you take it home and consecrate/bless/charge/bespooken it according to your own Traditions and recipes, do the prior laws still apply at all? And would that invalidate any prior-existent expiration date?”
I think it depends. I will take omamori as an example. You can get omamori from two places- any store that sells them, and a Shrine. If I were to get an omamori from store, I’d be less likely to believe in it’s joo-joo-ness. Probably because it’s mass made and I can’t verify how it’s been handled before it was given to me. If I get an omamori from the Shrine, I follow the instructions as I’ve been told- because I know that Barrish-sensei has done the necessary things to ensure that it works well. I guess it has more joo-joo for me.
Beyond that… meh. I tend to think that many amulets are what you make them, and in many cases, it seems to me that you could almost ‘overwrite’ or ‘rewrite’ their purpose and make it your own. Of course, I don’t deal a lot with amulets and all of that, esp not ones that are store bought- so I can’t really say for certain.
“You cast a spell…say for money. And it doesn’t work. Or it doesn’t seem to. Do you have a set time-frame that you wait before attempting again? Or do you assume that’s it, it’s some gods will, it’s just not going to happen and give up? Or…do you wait patiently, knowing that what seeds you’ve planted will eventually grow, but might take longer than you’d anticipated? Is there a certain element you work into your spell work to ensure that things happen when you need to, not when whatever lines up…? Or do you throw your hands in the air, bury your head in a pillow, cry yourself to sleep and give up entirely? Has that happened (you’ve given up) and just when you’d given up all hope, has the spell work unexpectedly produced results?”
This has happened to me, actually. After I graduated college, I had a HELL of a time finding work. And early on in my stint of unemployment, I tried working magical whatnots to try and get a job. After it not really working, I decided that maybe I couldn’t really do anything about it. That I was where I was meant to be- and no amount of stones, talismans, prayers or herbs was going to change that. So I sorta gave up on magic, and haven’t really used traditional magic since. It was a breaking point for me, and I never came back around to believing that I could magic myself out of (or into) a situation. For better or worse.
Long response is long. Your fault, though. For having so many questions
Long response is great. This is, after all, a discussion…and I *did* ask for it!
I know how you feel about spell work. I rarely do any anymore. At first it was because I felt it wasn’t really working. Like you, I ended up exactly where I was supposed to be. Once I accepted that, well, it was all better.
Aside from that, I have little need for real “spells.” Aside from protective work for my house/vehicle/hubby, there’s little I have to do with it these days. *shrug* Part of me actually has an itchy trigger-finger…I’m just aching to get down and witchy. I pity the first person to piss me off enough…just kidding. Well, mostly…;-)
Expiration dates: the idea in the traditions I work in is that talismans do have something like a charge or a connectiona to a spirit or realm that will get weaker over time, and this isn’t a new idea either (Ficino says that wood talismans lose their power unlike gems or metals that retain it longer, back in the 1400s). However, some magicians like a more spirit-based model, in which case it’s like how much you can rely on a friend you talk to every day versus one you message on Facebook once every year or so: the first friend will be more attentive and helpful than the second. As for spells and rituals, unless you’ve got something set to explicitly go on indefinitely and can power itself (synced to the seasons, Sun, Earth, a person’s own life, etc.), then probably they’ll wear out and away. I know that my own house’s protections should ideally be reapplied every new moon but once a season will suffice for nearly all my needs, quoth my spirit attendants. However, unless one is extremely regular in the amount of effort and intensity they apply in their works, a quick one-off spell will probably fade out sooner than an intense month-long ordeal with bi-daily rituals.
Rules: unless the second person really knows how to read, reverse engineer, and re-intent a charged item, I’d think that the original rules and intent would dominate. This is especially important when working from older texts and grimoires: if a text says to wear something and you leave it on your altar instead, things will almost always go awry unless you really hack into the original ritual or talk to the entities it contacts. As for applying another layer of consecration over the original, if the consecrations work harmoniously then I’d think that they’d work together in more situations, but I haven’t heard or experienced this situation. If the consecrations conflict with each other, then the consecration with more power would probably dominate but would tend to go funky and awry more often. However, I’d guess that the power supplied by the new consecration would help keep the talisman alive longer, but depending on how the consecrations mesh, that may not be the best thing.
(Also, “bespooken” is now in my favorites vocabulary. <3)
Recasting: Usually I set up explicit conditions with my rituals, so that if they fail I know that they fail, or I can talk to some spirit or other to check up on the status of the ritual. If things happen to go slower than expected, that's okay, so long as I'm aware of what's going on. If I know for a fact that it's a failure and it wasn't meant to be, I'll recheck my math and see what can be improved upon (more prep? different incense? getting more angels in on it?) My major focus is on theurgy and spiritual upwardness right now, so I haven't gotten my hands dirty with much real world casting down here, so my experiences may not fit the context that well.
I am glad that my tendency to make up words is hitting all the right chords here…! Seriously, with as many different Traditions and techniques out there, it was really freaking hard to come up with one word that would explain what someone might do to a charm/amulet/talisman/whatever…and bespooken just came flying out. I love when that happens.
Interesting that Ficino proposed that. I haven’t come in contact with this theory in my readings…however it reflects a theory I’ve been working on. It seems to me that some things *do* last longer than others, based on their actual physical life. For instance, I find that works I would do with herbs…say a mojo bag (or whatever you want to call it) has a shorter shelf life than something made from stone. When cooking with herbs, you learn pretty quickly that the vast majority of them lose their vim & vigor after a year (some sooner, a couple later) so I would tend to believe that anything herbal based would *not* last any longer than a year, at best. Whereas stone lasts…well, forever in human terms at least.
Again, all my theories are hypothetical and could be thrown out at a moment’s notice!
Tee-hee. Using computer terminology when discussing magic. YES! “hack into the original.” I would think this would be very true in your playground. The rules are pretty well-known, the rituals and tools complicated, some of the Spirits very, very picky. When talking about a magical item that took quite literally months to create…that I wouldn’t even dream of reprogramming.
However, if you look at some of the Hoodoo items, they’re much less complicated, and often created with a bare minimum of education and experience in their tradition. When I look at those…I wonder how carefully or skillfully they were created in the first place. In those situations, I would probably risk it. First off, because it may have been made carelessly. Second, because I don’t know the actual intent of the creator. Some unethical practitioners have been known to “curse” items that were sold for “blessings” in order to guarantee return business.
Of course, in the long run the point is moot…after all, why would I buy something from someone I couldn’t trust implicitly? Especially when I would be more than capable of creating it myself from scratch thereby removing all those above-mentioned concerns, right?
I do think it’s prudent when possible (again, something from your neck of the wood not-so-much) to at least personally attune these items to yourself. I have a severe distrust of things that are made generically & sold over-the-counter like that. Sure, it might fit. I can buy clothes off the rack too, but they’re always better when tailored to fit. I guess in a pinch, if I didn’t know how to do it or didn’t know someone who did…*maybe* then I’d buy something. If I could trust the person selling it. Maybe.
I like the idea of presetting an expiration into the spellwork. If it doesn’t work by a specific date, you know to change it up a bit and try again. With all the different variables available in spell work, like you, I would reevaluate what I had done (I’m a BIG proponent of recording all activities for comparison and improvement later!), tweak it a bit (or a lot, depending), and get right down to business.
Again like you, my life is in a place where spell work simply isn’t all that necessary…another reason these opinions might change at a later date…!
Let me begin by saying that I think “bespooken” is the best word I have heard in a month. I love it.
Now to your topic: if the woman in the store claims the thing is good for a year, and then presumably expires (never heard of that in my life) then maybe it does so because that’s how she made it. But then again, if I buy it and it belongs to me, don’t I then engage this item to my purpose in some way? Then i would think how long it “lasts” is up to whatever I decided. I am not even remotely knowledgeable about astrological stuff, but in my wildest ideas, maybe the creator of it timed it somehow to planetary movements and that’s why it will cycle out and be useless in a year? Oh, who the frick knows? I do recharge….(“respooken?”) some of my protection stuff every year. I have a couple things hanging on my two doors that I can just feel are now dead ducks and need to be redone. I have no logical explanation for this. I don’t even have a reasonable spiritual explanation for this. They just feel pooped out. Since it won’t kill me to redo them, I’ll redo them. What the heck, right? Yeah, and what’s with people saying “never let anyone see your” (fill in the blank). Or don’t let them touch your (fill in the blank.) Who says? Why? Isn’t that up to me? Seriously.
You asked a good question about spells that don’t seem to work in the immediate. I think everyone needs to decide for themselves what to do about that one. There are some of my thigns I can feel are going to be useless right when I do them. They don’t have any “pow.” If it has serious lack of “pow” right when I do it, I’m going to safely assume I better try again later when maybe I’m more up to it. Or if it felt good, I’ll try to let it run longer. Some people say never ever ever redo them because you can somehow mess it up. Really? Who says? I didn’t get that memo. So I go back to the discernment thing. I think part of the art is to be able to feel what the heck went on (or feel that nothing went on and it was a dud.) But even so, I do think that we can always do some work in support of our original work. Maybe not doing the same exact thing over again, but add some supports to it. Light a candle for it. Petition our saints and spirits in support of the work to give it some more carrying power.
This is going to sound stupid, but the cosmetics people have this thing they call “scent layering.” I can’t do it because my skin will explode and I will have a headache but this evidently consists of a scented body wash, then a scented lotion and then on top, the matching perfume. Supposedly gives the fragrance a longer life. So maybe that’s a very silly and simple idea for the magic too. especially if you do your thing and there’s not enough “pow.” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adding supports to it. That may be the intervention of our spirits, ancestors, the saints, angels or whoever’s got your back. In any event, I think all of the magical “rules” are everyone’s best guess anyway, and people have to just do what they think is right. That’s part of the maturity of the practitioner.
And wow, I love to blather on.
You’re in good company here with the blathering…this is a blathering-friendly zone, so feel free!
First, I have some suspicions that *some* things that “expire” is simply to guarantee repeat business. I can’t help it, I’m cynical sometimes. But as far as protective work? It’s fantastic that you can feel they’re “dead ducks.” Seems like you’ve got a good handle on sensing your energy. And that you can tell if a spell is going to bomb right away. Saves time that way!
You know you’ll have to get back to that one later.
I do think it’s practical to “respooken” things of a protective nature regularly, even if (or maybe especially if) you can’t sense that they’re used up. First off, it just seems practical. Anything that important, you’d want to make sure was well enforced. Second, there does seem to be that psychological factor involved. You *feel* better and more secure knowing they’re there and working. It’s like replacing the battery in your smoke alarm every year. Maybe you need to, maybe you don’t. You could get up there, take the battery down, test it and decide. But if you just go ahead and replace it, you don’t have to worry about it dying unexpectedly in the middle of the night without knowing it’s no longer functioning. If you’re like me, just knowing the battery’s fresh helps you to sleep better at night…even if you never ever ever need the thing.
You know I love the layering. (And not the perfume. I have problems with 99% of commercial fragrances myself!) I hadn’t thought about *additional* spell work as “layers.” Good point. There’s no rule that says you *can’t* keep on castin’ until you get what you’re looking for.
I have thoughts, but im on my phone so yea. Ill type it up at work and post tonight.
I have thoughts but not being awake enough, I can’t voice them properly. Give me… a day or two.
I don’t believe that magic has an expiry date. If it works, then, fantastic! But if it doesn’t then there is a reason that the univere feels that you don’t need that aspect in your life at that particular time. I make any charm bags myself though, I would never buy a spell kit, because I don’t know the energies of the person putting it together are very positive…
Caveat emptor ala magic. I have that feeling, myself. I don’t trust other “workers” so easily. Thought that was just me tho!
Yes I think there are expiry dates on things. Often spells will be made to work through a moon phase or for a particular time to build the magic up and then let it loose. And I think naturally over time energy in things will fade away unless you recharge it back up. Just like a rechargeable battery, if its just putting out energy and not getting plugged in then it will die out.
If someone made me a spell item I would follow what they said. They know what they did with it and what they put into it. If it was something that was mass produced I might cleanse it then charge it in my own way. If it was made by a person and it was unique I’d be more inclined to believe in its power.
As for my own spells, its rare I do them. If they don’t work then I let it be. Maybe now wasn’t the right time for it. But I have found that sometimes they just take a lil time to bloom.
Magic is a cause and effect deal. Meaning that I would think it would depend on what the goal actually was. Let’s say you wanted to make yourself more attractive to employers. Well, then you get a nice job, I would think that would expire after you get a job, for one important reason. Magic is mostly about mind control. Once your mind is satisfied with the fact you landed a good job, it would have no reason to continue to make you appealing to further employers, would it?
I look at magic as a mind thing. If a person doesn’t believe in the magic, it’s not going to work. This is why I could never follow things like the Three Fold Law and the Free will BS. You can’t mess with someone else’s free will unless you chain them to the radiator against their will. You’re energy bending is going to affect them very little if they 1) don’t know it’s coming or directed at them, or 2) couldn’t care less because they think you’re a raving loon. There has to be a sliver of belief in the magic for it to work. That’s why some of our own work, for our own selves doesn’t work. Because we don’t have the proper belief in it to wrap our mind around it for it to work. Mind control. That’s what magic is. The mind can heal you, the mind can control you, or it can also destroy and kill you.
The magic is only as good as the mind that’s working it or the mind that believes in it. It expires when the mind has no further use of it.
I guess I don’t think about finished spells as “expired,” just “finished…” I guess then the question of whether or not they have an expiration point is most pertinent if you only take into account the ones that don’t work. Or don’t work as fast as maybe you want them to?
I do believe that the mind has a significant part to play in magic, but I have to admit I see more to it than that. Of course, that’s me!
You probably know that by now.
But I do agree with you in that the effect the mind has is dependent on the people involved. I truly believe this is not just the person doing the work…if you tell someone you’ve cursed them and they believe you it will have a much different effect on them than either you not telling them or if they don’t believe you. Yes, some of that is plain-good-ole-fashioned psychological warfare (which is occasionally a very important part of magic), but some o fit is their mind helping your mind actually create the curse.
So the whole keep silent thing isn’t always useful.
Altho broadcasting can also backfire. After all, many idiots will go about saying they’ve blasted so-and-so with whatever curse or hex (think about the Z. Budapest threat about the goddess chant, for example). When met with gales of righteous laughter, the “curse” would have a *lot* less punch to it, I should think.
Part of the reason that I think magic is only as good as the minds involved is because of the law of averages and luck.
Say, you have two people. Same age, same weight, same state of health. Both of them have stage IV cancer of the colon. You work your magic on both of them. Neither of them is aware of it. One of them dies and one of them lives. Was it the magic that made one live? It can’t see where that would even be remotely possible since he had no awareness of the magic even being cast. Or prayers being offered, if you will. What about the guy who dies? Why didn’t the magic save him? He had the same chances as the guy who lived, he also had no awareness of the magic, why did he die?
Christians would say it was because God needed him, or that it was his time but I don’t buy that. I think it’s probably more a question of the state of mind of the two people involved. One might have been more pessimistic, while the other positive. However, maybe that wasn’t the case either. Even if both of them had been aware, one or both could still die. There are too many things at work to allow me to believe that magic is anything other than bending energy to persuade the mind to change it’s own outcomes, but nothing more.
Perhaps I’m reading too much into it?
I don’t know if there is such a thing as reading too much into anything…the way my mind works!
You have a view on magic that fits your worldview and your spiritual beliefs. My views on magic are…well,a little bit more complicated. I agree with what you’re saying…I just also believe that there’s more to it. To my mind, there’s a…physical…aspect of magic along with the mental. That there are things…incense, herbs, candles, whatever…that also have a physical effect on the environment. In conjunction with the mind, I believe you go a little farther with the magic.
And although I certainly agree that because the mind is so heavily involved, belief has a *lot* to do with the efficacy of magic…I also believe that it often works without, around, or in spite of belief or lack of.
But that’s my view…;-) Which is based on the things I have seen in my own life.
Reality is, after all, a subjective experience. Individual results will vary. *grin*
I certainly agree with that! Here Here!
I think spells expire when they are “finished” – so with the job example yes, it’s over once you get a good job. But I don’t think things will “expire” unless you set an expiration date: which now that I think about it is probably a good idea but I never do that.
On the amulets and stuff: they’re probably pre-blessed and consecrated but I don’t know how it was done so I generally don’t buy pre-charged items. (Unless it’s from someone I trust). However, when I make things I bless them and charge them. So if I make an amulet, then I’ll charge it so that anyone can use it/it’ll work for whoever has it. That being said, I believe the amulet can be “broken” it someone takes it apart. Generally amulets have “secrets” in them and the magic is released if the top is opened or the bag is opened. I guess amulets, like wish bracelets, have a natural expiration date when they naturally fall off, break, open, etc. I never re-bless a blessed item because I think that would mess with it. If it’s an item I made, I usually “lock” it in place and most people I know who make items do.
I think general charged jewelry which are different for me than amulets can be re-charged and re-written based on what kind of stones nd metals are in there. Like, I try to go with the stone’s correspondences rather than make something up. It just helps me that way? I’m not saying it’s inherent in the stone but it is like a trigger for my mind. I have an owl smokey quartz necklace that could be infinitely recharged to a number of things but I will always keep it with protection and direction because it makes “sense” to me…
If it’s an amulet, I think that it doesn’t have an expiry date. I have a thingy (I’m not big on labels) made for my husband’s car for protection. It was made after one year when he had three accidents, including a particularly stupid pheasant taking his windscreen out on the motorway.
I made it years ago with wood and wool, have never recharged it and he’s not had an accident since. He says he has a near miss every year though.
Quercus Robur